James Robertson is the person behind Lokbox. We asked him a "few" questions about this fin system.
fb:. How did you become a surfer?
jjr:. I started surfing in Miami Florida in 1979 when my friend’s older brother took us surfing for the first time. I instantly knew I would always be a surfer when I stood up on my first wave that day.
jjr cutback, san miguel
fb:. How did you got into fish business?
jjr:. That's a good question, and I guess I'd have to say it really started with Channel Islands and their fish that Al Merrick made for Rob Machado. I got the opportunity to install Lokboxes on that first fish for Rob, and also the chance to design the fins for that board. They were "keels" with a rather large base (6.75") and fairly tall (deep) at 5.5".
I think that the guys at Channel Islands knew that our system was probably the only system available at that time that was strong enough to efficiently hold up a fin of that size. On top of that I'm not sure they knew exactly where they wanted to place that fin for the best performance and with Lokbox's adjustability they knew that they had the option to fine tune the board by moving the fins around. That attracted other shapers like Rich Pavel, Doc, etc… to us with their keel versions. The system held up well for the most part with a very low failure rate.
From there we just started to branch out with quads and twins. We have 20 glasshops surrounding us in Oceanside California, some of which (like Global and The Lab) are two of the largest in America. We usually see movements in this industry way before they actually happen. Like the quad fish, I was literally the only guy out Swami's or Trestles 4 or 5 years ago riding a quad fish speedialer type board in good overhead surf. Nowadays it's not uncommon to see upwards of half the lineup on them.
sequence of jjr on a 6'0'' pavel quad fish
fb:. With all this surfboard design "Renaissance" going on, Lokbox got its own place with a plethora of templates for alternative designs like the fish, quads and the bonzer. It looks like it is in the first choices among surfers and shapers, especially for customs and special productions boards. What brings the shaper and the surfer to prefer this system? What do you think that made people get interested in different designs over the last few years?
jjr:. Another great question! I think many things contributed to the interest in alternative boards. Obviously all the videos like Sprout etc.. Sparked allot of interest. But I feel people are waking up a bit and trying stuff out. Instead of just covering their eyes and buying what the magazines tell them or what the pros are using. They are being more realistic these days in the understanding that the pros are just that… pros.
They surf perfect waves almost everytime they surf. Us mere mortals spend the majority or our year surfing mediocre waves aside from that 2 week vacation we get to go on once a year. The foiled out, rockered out thruster can be next to impossible to learn to surf on in mediocre waves for the beginning surfer.
For intermediate or even advance surfers, these alternative shapes that are usually wider and flatter give the surfer more planning surface to get up and go down the line without as much of a struggle.
That equates to FUN, and that's what surfing is really about at the end of the day. How much fun did you have? How many waves did you catch? How fast did you go? Did you make the waves or get left behind? It's actually pretty easy for me to see why these boards have become so popular.
Justin Phillips on a 5'6" Rainbow Speedialer + Lokbox SD Turbo fins, Mentawais - courtesy of surfysurfy
fb:. Custom works or production boards, where is your place?
jjr:. Both. Lokbox is a high performance fin system. We pride ourselves in having a wide array of fin templates to suit any surfer for any type of surfboard. Performance is, and always has been number 1 for us, regardless of the board you are riding. Our goal is to maximize the performance of any board, whether it was made custom specifically for you, or if you bought it off the rack from your local shop.
fb:. Most of Lokbox fins templates are designed by master shapers. Like Rick Pavel, Rusty, Al Merrick, Jeff Lausch, Marlin Bacon and others. Also, there's some templates designed by young generation talented shapers, like Chris Christenson and Manuel Caro. Can you open a window to the fin creation process?
jjr:. The guys you've mentioned like Manny and Doc, and Christenson are custom shapers and experienced craftsmen. Often you will find with guys like this that they have had years of extensive feedback from their team riders, testing all sorts of different fins. Mainly due to not being able to find a fin that works the way they want… they'll design their own template.
Usually one that really compliments the board itself, and gives them the ability to have that board reach it's full potential. Some systems out there don't really cater to the smaller guys so much, as far as making their templates available. They'll have them choose from something "close" from their existing line of fins. In my opinion that just stifles progression. Some of the best designs out there come from these smaller shapers and board companies.
It's always been our intention to help progress the sport forward, therefore we try to make these templates available to these guys. Add in adjustability and they can really go out and play, and more importantly bring back feedback that would otherwise take years to get, or even worse never get.
fb:. Is it just a professional collaboration or is there also friendship going on?
jjr:. Funny you should ask that. Many of our customers are actually friends of mine and my partners stemming back years from way before Lokbox existed. But to be honest, I think if it's at all possible their should be some friendship in business. We're providing a product that goes along with the product your selling. I'm interested in how my friends business's are doing, and would like to think that they are interested in how mine is doing.
There's more to it than just selling stuff. It's gotta be fun as well. I've had so much fun meeting and hanging out with our reps and customers over the years we could talk about it for hours. On top of that I've surfed some great waves with them and that's what really puts the smile on my face. I wouldn't trade it for the world! That's what it should be about.
fb:. What drives you to support and promoting talented groom shapers, like Dennis Kane and Ian Zamora?
jjr:. These guys are the future of our sport. If you look at the shapers tree there are exactly 3 new shapers that have made any kind of impact on this industry since the year 2000. Ian, DK, and Danny Hess. That's pretty scary if you think about it. 3 guys in almost a decade? But surfing has grown almost double since then.
Where are the new shapers? The reality saddens me actually, to see this industry move away from the custom thing, and more towards the mass produced pop-out thing. It takes the special out of it in my opinion. Some of the coolest stuff developed in the world has come from america and I feel we are losing that. People are more prone these days to choose cheap over quality and I think it's mistake. It usually bites them on the ass down the road.
When I look back at the end of my life I'll smile knowing that my life was involved with quality not how cheap I can get something. Especially when it comes to surfboards and fins. I surf waves around the world where many times my life is relying on my equipment and I refuse to cut corners when it comes to that.
These three guys are just the same. They'll choose what works, over what it costs, and you can't put a dollar amount on that. They are craftsmen. And I'll do whatever I can to help them because of it.
fb:. Recently, you got a high performance fish shaped by DK. How does it go?
jjr:. Man, I did a crazy backside snap on that thing on an overhead wave!! It feels real good but I have yet to get it out on a good down the line point wave so I'll have to back to you. He's put a lot of design thought into that board and I think he'll do well with it.
The guys who have gotten one are flippin' out on them, which is why I had to have one. It paddles good and seems to fit into the pocket on hollower beachbreak waves a little better then the traditional wide point point forward fish. Could it be that this is the link between the fish and the shortboard? Time will tell.
fb:. What are the best shape/fins combinations you ever tried?
jjr:. My favorites in order of how often I ride them would be: Turbo Speedialers in my fishes, LB1/LB4's in my HP fishes, and T Knox thrusters in my shortboards and bigger thrusters.
fb:. In a recent The Surfers Journal issue, Brad Gerlach said that, when watching a guy surfing, he can tell when a fin failure happens, how much does that affect surfing and what the surfer do to compensate for these failures. How important is a solid fin system, can this affect the approach to surfing in terms of surfing serious waves and maneuvers?
jjr:. Man, you just got the gnarly questions huh? But they're good ones so I'm stoked! In that article Brad mentioned that he felt that Kelly Slater was the best in the world at recovery. Meaning when he falls off… somehow he still makes it. Or when his board slides out he somehow ends back over it completing the wave.
Let's look back a few years. Say like to 1990. No FCS, futures, or Lokbox. There were systems like Star system, and maybe O fish'l but they were not mainstream like the systems are today. 98 % of surfboard were using glassed on fins. There was coincidently no sliding around in surfing then either... unless you broke a fin off... ha ha.
Guys were putting it on rail and driving through turns with power. There so many power surfers back then. Guys like Brad, Dane Kealoha, Hans Hedeman, Tommy Carrol, Tom Curren, Kong..Richard Cramjust to name few. Nowadays you can count the power surfers on one hand. While it may be cool to see a surfer go up into a maneuver and as he hits it his board slides out and his back foot comes completely off, I just don't find it that appealing.
Gnarly talent and balance for sure, but I often find myself wondering what that turn would have been like had the board held in and he was able to fish the turn off. In most cases you can tell they did not intend to slide out it's just what happened. They react quickly that's for sure. Somehow they re-gain it, or "recover" as Brad says.
In my humble opinion it comes from have a fin that moves around too much on the board. Not just in the tip but the whole fin. Guys like Jeff Clark refer to it like driving a car with half the air taken out of the tires. You just don't get that positive feeling that you can put all your weight into.
We set out to develop a solid system that you can rely on. The lower portion of the fin that meets the board is very ridgid like a glass-on. The flex is in the tip where it should be. We do offer some flexier fins like our RTM fins, so if sliding is your thing you can still get that feel with Lokbox… it's just not forced upon you. There's big difference between sliding when you want to over having no control over it.
fb:. Why don't we see more guys riding Lokbox in surf contests? Technically, it would be good for pro surfers. It's just a matter of affordability?
jjr:. Well according to one of our customers in Hawaii, we are about $8 dollars cheaper than FCS so it's not affordability. We're a smaller company, trying to gain a foothold in a market that's not very accepting to new products.
It takes time. It's slow process but we're not going away count on it. Some of these guys are paid to use certain systems. Sorry, but we don't pay people. If you ride for us we'll set you up with fins.
Paying you clouds your feedback, and makes the whole thing not worthwhile for us. We want you to use it because it works, not because we paid you. That limits us somewhat. But that's OK. All of our current team riders are stoked on the system and are doing well. Another thing is that we are just not in every shop like our competitors, but picking up more and more all the time.
Maybe one day Lokbox will be as available as FCS or futures, and will start ending up in those boards. We'll know when guys start accidently getting Lokbox when they order FCS rather than the other way around ha ha.
fb:. What is like having such a good surfer as Taylor Knox riding your fins?
jjr:. It's been insane! We've gotten more feedback from Taylor in the last 2 years then we could have ever imagined. We pride ourselves in the fact that his boards are 5 pounds or under… polyester boards, often with only 1 layer of 4ounce on the deck with a tail patch, and he's not breaking fins or boxes.
He's upwards of 130 boards without one box failure yet. That's a good track record considering how much he buries his boards on turns. We're stoked. The boxes were installed the same way yours or anyone elses would be! We figure if he can't break it we doubt you will.
On top of that most people don't ride boards that are built as fragile as the boards the pros ride. I'm now riding the fin we developed together and loving it. It holds in unreal in real waves like the northshore, and I've been riding it around here as well with great results. Killer fin!!
fb:. What's Lokbox's best advantages over other systems. The box, the flex quality?
jjr:. Mostly the box. We say, "Think inside the box" as a way to try and get you guys to look at how your fin(s) are attached to the board. We use a tapered cavity that allows for a press fit of the fin into the box. In other words it's wedged into the box. There is no movement or wiggling of the fin inside the box, making Lokbox feel and perform like you are riding glassed-on fins. Add the adjustability and you have the ability to fine tune your board for you.
Also the ejectability feature is the only one on the market. A design that allows your fins to eject upon contact to a solid object such as the reef or another board. If you blow out your plugs or boxes on the first day of your 2 week vacation, your carrying around dead weight as the board is rendered unusable.
I get guys all the time telling me that their trip wasn't ruined when they nailed the reef. Instead they just straightened out the metal plate and replaced the fins and viola… back in the water. That worth a million bucks to us. Or more!!
fb:. How would you convert a "glass-ons" purist to the Lokbox system? Just adjustability?
jjr:. Not just that, but the ability to light his/her board up through the use of different templates… more accurate foils from fin to fin, and of course ease of travel. The fact that their board goes through the glassers faster never hurts either. Mostly I'll convince them that they get everything a system offers without any compromise of performance.
fb:. Events like the Fish Fry and AB3 had sprouted everywhere. How do you see these happenings?
jjr:. These events are insane. I see them as a way to differentiate between the different boards out there. Tradeshows are for trade people. The general public is not allowed. I got involved because these events are the only way the end consumer can come check out a board, (and the fins) feel the rails, talk to the guy that shaped it, then go out and actually surf it, without shelling out 1 dollar.
They can come back in and swap fins to fine tune it even more. When they do go to get a board from a shop or wherever, they now have an idea of what works for them, and the chances of them getting a board that really works for them goes up substantially.
A happy customer will come back to that same shop for his next board, and it blows me away that the retail shops have not gotten behind these events. It takes alot of time and money to prepare these events, and we could use some help. It's in everyones best interest.
fb:. In which direction do you want to go in the future?
jjr:. I'd like to see people paying more attention to their equipment. Utilizing the resources that are out there for them to enhance their surfing experience. I'm stoked to see people looking at greener ways to build surfboards and fins and make less of an impact on the environment.
fb:. Would you like to add something else, any additional thoughts?
jjr:. Surfboards cost less than Starbucks. Support your local shaper! Do some research and find out what works best for you. Thanks for the interview I'm flattered! See you in Portugal!!
fb:. Thank you for your time, great answers! See you there.
related links:
www.lokboxfins.com
